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Talk:Marvel Universe Reading Order Part 15
The current month/year breakdown suggests that the Marvel timeline has always been compressed at a fixed rate, which is not the case. For example, there wasn't really much compression during the years 1962-1968; it only began after that. Zuckyd1 (talk) 17:42, March 30, 2016 (UTC) I actually love the way you have done the early 1990s. I did it that way I did based on a recent spider-man and issue so thats why there is a 6:1 ratio for a while. On the other hand the millenium needs to be at the millenium. Do you know any issues that show the millenium? if so when wher they printed? So I will keep what you have done for the early and mid 90s but change the rest how it was before. (I also need to change the x-men reading order to reflect this) --Ryangut (talk) 16:29, March 31, 2016 (UTC) Ok, I have now done what i said. It is now a mostly 4:1 ratio. 3:1 for the late 90s keeps the millenium at the millenium and stops Spider-man being ridiculously busy as he had 5 titles on the go. If anyone knows an issue that shows the millenium please let me know. --Ryangut (talk) 16:30, April 1, 2016 (UTC) Hi Noam Please change it the way it was before so that the millenium is at the millenium. it does say at the top of the page. the 4: 1 ratio is only an average. --Ryangut (talk) 16:25, April 5, 2016 (UTC) Hi Noam I have changed it back. Please ask first like you did on the other page. its like this for a good reason. please also see the discussion above.--Ryangut (talk) 11:58, April 6, 2016 (UTC) Your Interpretation of the Timescale is Incorrect Whoever is placing events of modern age characters onto specific dates clearly does not interpret the Timescale properly. You are making it far more complicated than it needs to be. I recommend going back and re-reading the Sliding Timescale and Topical Reference guidelines. Also, you're doing it in such a way that it's going to constantly need revision otherwise it'll be incorrect. For such a massive undertaking that's not the most practical way to go. Allow me to try and explain it in the simplest of terms. First of all, there is a 4:1 ratio, which means for every four years of publications one year of Marvel time elapses. Specifically, it's from November of the first year until October of the fourth year. The other thing is that the measurement of time is not measured by the Gregorian calendar. But by the passage of a single year from the day the Fantastic Four got their powers (Which identifies as having happened sometime in the summer). Second of all, the timescale has *two* components to it. What's considered the Modern Age (Everything from Fantastic Four #1 to now) and the "Pre-Modern Age" which accounts for Modern Age character whose lives are affected by the Sliding Timescale. As the Timescale moves forward for the Modern Age, in turn the "Pre-Modern Age" moves forward as well. What I mean by this is that anyone who ages like a normal human being would (or at least did until they got their powers if immortality or slowed aging is the criteria) is governed by the timescale. As the present moves forward their collective past (both pre-modern and modern age) continues to move forward. Realistically, human beings can live up to 100 years, so I think a safe estimate of "Pre-Modern Age" time that slides forward would be the last 100 years of history prior to the modern age could potentially slip forward. For example: Reed Richards, who is roughly 52 years old in the modern age per the time scale. So the 37 years of his life prior to Fantastic Four #1 also moves forward along the timescale. That's why stories in the 1960s say he was alive during the 1940s as an adult, why during Civil War in 2006 the references to Reeds childhood take place in the 50s, and why in 2012 a tombstone on a cover of Fantastic Four states he was born in 1961. So unless you're mapping the timeline of characters who have existed in eras outside of the Sliding Timescale range (IE: Captain America before being put in suspended animation, Wolverine, Apocalypse, the Inhumans, the Asgardians, etc. etc. etc.) you should never ever ever ever apply a specific date to the lifetime of any modern age character. Because it's going to become dated. Instead of going back and updating a page constantly for topical details or incorrectly determined time frames, we should be as general as possible. If you really wanted to plot out a proper timeline for the Marvel Universe, you absolutely have to put a divide between "Real Time" and "Marvel Time". If I were whoever is doing this reading order, I would most certainly scale it like this: 1) Dawn of Time to A.D. 2001 <--- This would only cover the history of characters that were not locked into the Sliding Timescale. So characters who existed in different eras. I use 2001 because that's probably the most current "real time" reference you're going to get since "Marvel Time" is only 14 years old by its own measurement. Anything you put in that time frame should never include anyone who could be classified as having a normal human lifespan in that section. I put 2001 as the stop point because that's where "Real Time" stops right now, that will bump forward to 2002 in October 2018 as that's the next four year roll over. However, that, by no means dictates that you start applying years post 2001 to the Modern Age or applying Pre-2001 years to the early lives of Modern Age characters... Say, stating Peter Parker's per-Spider-Man high school years took place in the 90s. Prospectively, from a topical standpoint, saying that now makes sense, but eventually it will not. I understand we're talking decades down the road, but still if you take a look at the current Marvel Handbooks, they don't apply calendar dates to anyone who is rooted in the Modern Age. Only characters who are long lived or immortal, or have been put in suspended animation or had some way of appearing in the modern age without being sufficiently aged. 2) Pre-Modern Age: Which should map out the years from the oldest modern age character out there that has a normal human life span. I would measure this in negative years leading up to Fantastic Four #1 (Much like the B.C. calendar counts backwards until A.D. started moving forward) To play it safe, I'd measure it from Year -100 to Year 0. Yes there will be a weird "overlap/gap" between "Real Time", "Pre-Modern Age" and "Modern Age", but that's the only way you can measure these things without going back and constantly revising pages every time the timescale slides forward. 3) Modern Age: Which would measure the fourteen (soon to be fifteen) years of Marvel Time that has elapsed since Fantastic Four #1. If you want a good idea of how the timescale works and how topical references are determined using actual examples, my work-in-progress Expanded History of Reed Richards and every Continuity Notes section of every Fantastic Four related comic on this Wiki pretty well cover any possible issue that come up when you're trying to plot the timeline. *** That all said: The timescale is not perfect but it works for well over 90% of any issues you may come across. There are some facts that are difficult to navigate, but they are trivial matters as they only impact minor characters or can easily be interpreted with speculation (IE: How Peggy Carter or anyone Cap knew during World War II could be alive without artificial means in the Modern Age is a prime example. Peggy being a SHIELD agent for example made the Infinity Formula accessible to her.) However, these inconsistencies need to be approached on a case-by-case basis and shouldn't be used to discredit the above because -- as I've said -- it works 90% of the time. I've checked this on 55 years of Fantastic Four comics. I appreciated all the effort you're putting in and all, but you're doing the math wrong. Thought I'd point that out. Nausiated (talk) 17:30, December 7, 2016 (UTC) Modern age Hi I agree with some of what you said. if you know exactly where each year should end then thats great. I have put dates as circa anyway. I have puts the years as circa for the modern age because i know there is no 100% official correct answer. i explained the basics of this at the top of the page. I would like to discuss this with you more but not all today. Keeping the millenium solves so many problems. so the pre-modern age and modern age stays where it is. you can get a bigger date then the millienum. so this keeps stories in their intended century. as for 4:1 to one ratio. it was like that before then someone else convinced me to change it. I used 3:1 just before the millenium because spider-man was having a ridiculous amount of adventures. everybody has a different opinion. so I could change this back. Please don't make radical changes and mess everything up. i will talk to you again soon. i can address your concerns about Reed richards and I will like to chat about some other characters too. --Ryangut (talk) 17:20, December 8, 2016 (UTC) Hi again. I have read the article on the sliding timescale and what you have said and so i will now make some changes. (I will also change the x-men reading order to match). thanks. --Ryangut (talk) 17:11, December 9, 2016 (UTC) I have now carried out the changes. There is now a clear split between the historic age ending 1961 and the pre-modern age. I have used both 'generic dates' (e.g. Decade 1) and 'actual circa dates relative to the millenium' to suit both tastes. there is now a flat ratio of 4:1 for the modern age. I have added more explanation at the top of the page to explain why the page has been set out this way. Unbound the Marvel Universe Timeline! "For the purpose of this article only, the millennium is fixed at the millennium and dates are relative to the millennium. Historical events in the Marvel Universe are not quite the same as they are in our real universe from about 1962 on wards. Therefore, in this Modern Era, from 1990 onwards topical references need to be ignored because stories were written on a Sliding Timescale known as Marvel Time. However the Cold War can't be ignored, because it is too intrinsic to many stories, so in the Marvel Universe it ends circa 1997. These dates should be taken as circa." I understand how important the Cold War was to the Comics in those times, but this kind of action seems wrong to a wiki project whose goal is to keep a almost-complete database of OFFICIAL(and some unofficial help) information about an Comic omniverse and everything involved with its creation.(At least that's what I think it's goal is) Also, although that makes some of older comics keeping making sense, lots of them still doesn't and now so does the modern ones whose story is centralized in a modern issue such as technology. This is disfavouring modern comics in favour of old ones.--Civil Warrior (talk) 22:13, December 13, 2017 (UTC) Well, I think this edit is pointless. I already covered this possible controversy by saying that this is unofficial and For the purpose of this article only. This is not disfavouring modern comics in favour of old ones beacuse it is correct as of the millenium. Long may the marvel universe modern age continue (e.g.1961-2039?).Plus you have retconning anyway. I will leave it as it is but if it creates confusion I will have to put it back the way it was. thanks for your interest. I have now changed the pre-modern era and the x-men reading order to match. so the speculative/circa dates have now all gone. I actually had this debate before (see above). So I used generic dates e.g. year one, decade 1 and speculative/circa dates to accomodate both views. so we are doing it just generic way now. hopefully this will not lead to confusion. I think its best to anchor dates at the millenium like I did because it acts as our north/greenwich meantime/middle C. so we all know where we are. It seems the only practical way to handle the problems of Marvel Time. The 20th century is the 20th century . The 21st century is the 21st century. --Ryangut (talk) 18:04, December 15, 2017 (UTC)